thanks so much for watching on the day the president

unveiled some proposals to make this country a safer place. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. gun smoke. let's play "hardball." ♪ gun smoke. let's play "hardball." ♪ gun smoke. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. my hero the graeld world war ii leader winston churchill once said i refuse to be impar usual between the fire and the fire brigade. president obama agreed. what side will the republicans take? the fires? will the gop be the guns over people party? look at the tough stand the president's taken here. not just limiting the capacity of gun magazines and background checks. but limiting the ban on

semiautomatic rifles. what's the nra done? gone after the president's daughters. people are hurt by what happened to those first graders. it's not a smart move to be out there backing the gun runners. for sure it's not good to sell in the suburbs or the cities. it may not even sell in the country. nobody likes what happened in connecticut and a decent society will get off its butt. a decent society will get off its butt. both the gun kind and the other kind. collin goddard was a survivor of the 2007 virginia tech shootings. he's now with the brady campaign to prevent gun violence. and mark glazer is the director of mayors against illegal guns. for measures he could control through the executive branch. they range from nominating a permanent atf director to new measures on mental health and school safety and a campaign promoting gun safety for owners. but he also called on congress to take on the problem legislatively. >> these are a few of the 23 executive actions that i'm

announcing today, but as important as these steps are, they are in no way a substitute for action from members of congress. it's time for congress to require a universal background check for anyone trying to buy a gun. congress should restore a ban on military-style assault weapons and a ten-round limit for magazines. and finally congress needs to help rather than hinder law enforcement as it does its job. we should get tougher on people who buy guns with the express purpose of turning around and selling them to criminals. and we should severely punish anybody who helps them do this. >> collin, what's your reading on what he did today? do enough? >> we finally have leadership from the white house. it's great to see a comprehensive approach to the gun violence. the vice president promised me personally we're going to get something done about this. it was a great day. >> when you hear it, what do you see that works? what do you see that will stop

people who are mentally unstable or emotionally unstable or criminally intent from getting guns to use in these spray shootings is what we're really concerned with right now. >> that's the biggest way to impact that is at the point of sale and requiring a kbakd check on all gun sales. they realize that background checks don't take guns from law-abiding people. they pass those every time. but those with a felony conviction or a diagnosed mental illness -- >> where's the nra on background checks? >> the vast majority of them -- >> what about the big shots? lapierre? >> i don't know. >> do you think he's for this stuff? >> he should be. >> where are the bad guys in this? they make money off this. may make money off everything we're talking about here. ammo, clips, guns. and background checks prevent sales. >> the truth is most dealers want more people in their stores. when these private sales are

taking place over the internet or out of the back seat of a car, that doesn't do good. >> so the dealers of brick and mortar want it. >> my dad was a gun dealer. he wanted people in the store. that's how they make their money. >> let me ask you. when you do a background check, a guy comes in and is reasonable looking. they want to buy a gun. if you have a background check, do they have to wait while the government checks out who they are, whether there's a court-ordered mental situation or emotional problem or a criminal record or whatever. what stops them from getting that gun mailed to them ten days or whatever later? >> well, right now they get turned away at the point of sale and are not prosecuted. that's a problem the president ought to deal with. that's the problem the president and we have been talking about for a long time. nothing stops that person from going online, pressing a mouse three times and getting a gun from an unlicensed private seller. >> you can go on ebay and get a

gun. >> not on ebay. they do a good job not selling guns. arms jb list and craigslist. >> if somebody says bushmaster 100 bucks used. >> or best offer. here's my phone number and e-mail address. throw me your best offer and let's move somewhere. guns, cash, that's it. >> are either of you educated on what the assault rifle is? >> the president is going to follow the lead of people on the hill. diane feinstein. >> didn't the bushmaster not get defined last time? >> the law did some good, but it was easy to evade. i think they're going to pass a tighter law this time. >> let's talk about politics. you can do these things by geography. but we had ed rendell on who took on the nra in pennsylvania. he said the suburban republic, those who are going to be in trouble are those who line up

with the nra who represent the suburbs. the suburbs will not put up with this. >> you ask people who are afraid of the nra. name me five congressman or governors who lost their seats because of the nra? >> they're obedient. let's look at this. the president said it will be tough and he'll need the support of republicans and democrats who hold wide ranging views on guns and gun ownership. let's listen to the president. >> we're going to need voices in those areas and those congressional districts where the tradition of gun ownership is strong to spoke up. ask your member of congress if they support universal background checks to keep guns out of the wrong hands. ask if they support a ban on high capacity magazines and military style weapons. and if they say no, ask them why not. ask them what's more important? doing whatever it takes to get a "a" grade from the gun lobby that funds their campaigns or

giving parents some peace of mind when they drop their child off for first grade. >> speaking of which the nra responded to the action plan today by saying in part, we look forward to working with congress on a bipartisan basis to find real solutions to protecting america's most valuable asset, our children. attacking firearms and ignoring children is not a solution to the crisis we face as a nation. only law-abiding gun owners will affected and our children will remain vulnerable to the inevidentability of more tragedy. that came after hours the nra did this web video mentioning the president's two daughters. >> are the president's kids more important than yours? then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his kids are protected by armed guards at their school? >> i don't know where to go with this indecency. i'll start with you, collin.

what do you make of that ad? i don't know what that helps. >> either do i. it's a ridiculous statement and to attack the president's children like that when there's more policy we should be discussing. i frankly don't get it. >> does the nra notice we've had presidents mowed down and their families vulnerable. lincoln and garfield and teddy roosevelt shot at. luckily to be saved. truman was attacked. roosevelt was shot at. kennedy was killed. reagan was almost killed. it's not a joke. >> what this goes to is the big and growing difference between the nra's rank and file who are pretty normal people. >> do they know that the idea of talking about assassinating or endangering the lives of a presidential family hurts the process. then to say let's talk about this daughters. >> there's a lot of nra members who don't like this kind of stuff. they're not talking to their rank and file.

they're talking to a hard core base right now. i don't know that's a winning strategy for them over the long haul. >> what is going on? lapierre used to seem his head was screwed on a couple years ago. maybe many years ago. why are they sending him out with this absolute rejectionist position? we're not doing anything on gun clips or background checks. why don't say they you know what? there's common ground here. >> we know that their membership supports what we're talking about. background checks on all gun sales. that speaks to that giant disconnect between the membership of the leadership. these are clearly out of touch from the american person, the further away from reality they're going to get. >> next to the president and his remarks today, slightly older than the newtown students. these children had all written letters to the president calling for action on gun control. which i expect young kids would do. in advance of these coming to washington, rush limbaugh

accused the president of using those kids as human shields. let's listen. >> obama uses kids as human shields. he brings these kids supposedly who wrote letters to the white house after newtown. it's going to be very difficult, very difficult to oppose it. you've got these little kids there. they don't want to die. and how can you not listen to them. you've got to do something. that's the picture. >> what kind of -- >> is he on or off his meds again? >> i don't care about his meds. i care about the lack of any kind of human approach to this problem. kids were mowed down by a deranged killer. he had a weapon that was particularly dangerous and particularly useful in a sick way to somebody who wants to mow people down. semiautomatic bushmaster with clips on it. this is a problem we've got to deal with. there could be different ways,

but to make fun of those kids, i don't want to die is some kind of joke? that's sadistic. >> rush limbaugh needs to -- >> i don't know why his viewers ride around in cars and trucks doing their jobs, regular people. that's wrong. stop that. we can be for lower taxes, less government, less regulation. we can agree on that. but that is sick. why don't they call him up and say shut up once in awhile. your thoughts? >> they should. and if rush limbaugh actually saw that classroom after that morning, the reality of the situation that we're talking about. >> two to eleven bullets in each kid. unrecognizable children. remember being in first grade? >> i have a son who's there. >> we all remember it a little bit. in a powerful moment today the president spoke about meeting the parents of newtown victim grace mcdonnell. there she is. let's take a look. >> grace was seven years old

when she was struck down. just a gorgeous, caring, joyful little girl. i'm told she loved pink. she loved the beach. she dreamed of becoming a painter. chris, her father, gave me one of her paintings. and i hung it in my private study just off the oval office. and every time i look at that painting, i think about grace. and i think about the life that she lived and the life that lay ahead of her. and most of all i think about how when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable among us, we must act now. >> you know, i think the responsibility of officials to protect the society. they're doing their jobs. for rush and those people to couple out and say this is all theater, nobody made up this crime, this horror. nobody made it up. it's true. it's reality. it's the world we live in.

and it's going to happen again. i thought it was interesting that the nra put out the phrase referring to the inevidentability of this happening again. some guy standing with a uniform on at the school might in some cases stop it. i'm not going to fight that one. but the real problem is the weaponry and the mental illness involved in this case and the ease to buy a weapon and bring it into a school. you know, they keep saying more fire power is going to solve the problem. what do you think? you've been there. >> if the united states the country with 300 million guns already, they allow everybody to carry guns everywhere. if the idea that if only we had more guns that we would be safer. then we would be the safest place in the world. we are the opposite of that. how many hundred million more guns do we need before things are safer for everybody? >> thank you for coming on the show. this is an issue not going away. coming up with the nra

taking the low road on guns bringing the president's daughters into the debate. says it's time for the republican party, his party, to choose. guns or people. whose side are they on. really on. president obama also has big battles looming over the debt ceiling, budget, immigration. he's already taking heat over the makeup of his cabinet. not enough women. let's talk about that later in the show. and none of the president's second term agenda will be easy with the republicans in congress. take texas congressman steve stockman. he replaced ron paul and is making noise about impeaching the president. it's his second go around in congress. in '94 he was considered far to the right. now he fits in with some of these people. it says a lot how far they have come. finally let me finish with a need for republicans again to choose sides. the wild bunch or the posse? this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] how do you make 70,000 trades a second... ♪

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coming up monday, president obama will deliver his second inaugural address as president. four years ago in his first address, the president paid tribute to the historic nature of his election. >> this is the meaning of our liberty and our creed why men and women and children of every race and every faith can join in celebration across this magnificent mall and why a man whose father less than 60 years ago might not have been served at a local restaurant can now stand before you to take a most sacred oath. >> call me a romantic but i'm looking for a major even historical address this coming monday. and we'll be right back. ly with a will or living trust. and you'd like the help of an attorney. at legalzoom a legal plan attorney is available in most states with every personalized document to answer questions. get started at legalzoom.com today. and now you're protected.

welcome back to "hardball." just how out of touch is the nra? the gun rights group has given no ground since the newtown school shooting and is now running a new ad that goes after the president's daughters. has the group finally given up the veneer of having from both

parties? americans are generally turning on them and many of their policies are deeply unpopular. i'm talking about the nra. and they're facing right now, we'll see. will the republican party go along the same road the nra is taking? joining me now is my friend and colleague joe scarborough who often speaks common sense from the center right. is it fair to say you're in the center right politically? where would you like to have a third party describe you? i think you are center right. i'm somewhere over to the left, but i think you're somewhere on the other side of the middle point. where are you? >> you know, for the most part i'm where i was when i was in congress. 95% conservative rating. and we could start a debate right now over debt. let me just -- because this is an important point to make. entitlements, why the democrats haven't passed a budget in over 1500 days and you would say this guy is really conservative. we could debate further about

government shutdowns and i would tell you i might not flinch in 2013 more than i did in 1995. i'm a really conservative guy especially fiscally. that said, the extremism that has taken over my party on certain issues that has us running down rabbit trails that neither ronald reagan or william f. buckley would ever run down is what's causing this party problems. i think i'm a very conservative guy, but i think my party has gone in a direction that's deeply disturbing to me on a lot of issues especially this one right now. >> traditional this conservative means you believe in institutions and holding them together and holding society together. it's about keeping order. it's about opposing disruptions and radicalism. maybe this is too much like shooting ducks -- >> no, no. can i make a point on that, though, really quickly though?

>> sure. >> this is what's most disturbing to me. i said it before when i came out supporting a ban on assault weapons. you know, for me this issue used to be a symbolic issue. but after newtown, after colorado, after oregon. after everything that's happened it's not about symbolism anymore. and when i really get into a debate and ask a question that the president asked, why? why do certain elements of the nra support assault weapons? and these high-capacity magazines? the answer always comes back. they think they may have to use them sometimes against american troops that are going to be coming to their house or landing in their back yard with black helicopters. there's nothing conservative about this point of view that survivalists believe they need these weapons to actually turn them on their own government. that's radical. this isn't conservative. this is not about the party of ronald reagan who by the way

supported an assault weapons ban and helped pass it in 1994 by leaning on republican members. this is about the party of wayne lapierre. and republicans need to decide are they going to be the party of wayne lapierre who is upsidedown in approval ratings or the party of ronald reagan? >> let's talk about their leadership with the nra. look at this ad that ran. it's a web ad. didn't spend much money on this baby. you can tell by the quality of it. but let's talk about taste and political sensitivity. not soft sensitivity but smart sensitivity. do they have a grip on the american conscience or not? here is the ad. >> are the president's kids more important than yours? then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his kids are protected by armed guards at their school? >> what do you make of that ad in terms of political smarts? going after the daughters and

their security. >> what i make of the ad is and i said it before. wayne lapierre has done more to hurt the gun rights cause in america than anybody else. start with the press conference. it was a stunningly tone deaf press conferences. one of the most tone deaf press conferences i've seen in my life. then you follow it up with the iphone app that childrens ages four and older could actually practice using assault weapons on target practice on their parents' iphone. then they follow-up with this commercial. chris, there's a reason why even a week after newtown the majority of americans did not support an assault weapons ban. now 60% of americans support an assault weapons ban. 85% of americans want universal background checks. something like 70% of americans actually want a national registration process to track gun sales. and then you go to other issues like high capacity magazines, that's like a 65%, 70% approval

rating. the nra is upside down in their approval rating. that's all changed over the past two, three weeks. why has it changed? it hasn't changed because of bloomberg. it hasn't changed because of obama. it hasn't changed because of feinstein. it's changed because of the extremism inside the nra leadership. not nra members, but their nra membership has become so extreme they've lost middle america. >> let's talk about whipping this if you're on the republican side and you were among the independents pushing for this on the republican side. when you look at the rural areas, utah, idaho, maybe parts of the south, definitely some parts of the south where you have a real red situation. where the only thing you fear is a primary. a younger woman running against you. is there any way they don't consider the pro-gun vote the safe vote? or will that change? is that still the vote voting with the nra? >> i think that's the safest vote. at the same time i can tell you there are millions and millions of dollars that are going to be

pouring into swing districts across america. not just from michael bloomberg but obviously from gabby giffords' efforts and others. and you're going to see whatever money the nra spends in 2014 you'll see that double, triple, quadrupled from people who support sensible gun control. so what once was the safe vote in a lot of districts is no longer going to be the safe vote. and i can tell you, chris, i know a thing or two about politics. republicans got angry with me over the past year when i told them mitt romney was in trouble. i can tell you something. in 2014 in my district in northwest florida, a district jerry fall wwell called the most conservative in america, there's no doubt this would be the right move for me to run as a fiscally conservative republican, a pro-life republican who has said enough to survivalists and extremists. the second amendment is about protecting our homes and hunting

with our friends and family members. it's not about military-styled assault weapons that ended up killing, you know, 6-year-old and 7-year-old kids in connecticut. >> i'm on your side. thank you joe scarborough. and his rating, it's always been an independent president. up next, how does bill clinton see his relationship with hillary? there is a fascinating tease. big bill speaks out on hillary. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. i describe myself as a mother, a writer and a performer.

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take a boat ride or just lay in the sun. enjoy the wildlife and natural beauty. and don't forget our amazing seafood. so come to the gulf, you'll have a great time. especially in alabama. you mean mississippi. that's florida. say louisiana or there's no dessert. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home. president obama's inaugural parade will feature eight floats including a hawaii float to honor his birthplace, an

illinois float to honor the first lady's home state and a kenyan float just to mess with republicans. why not? it's a parade. everyone loves a parade. >> bill clinton answers a question about hillary clinton's health and her plans for the future and thoughts about what lies ahead for their relationship. >> she's always been very, very healthy. and she has very low blood pressure, very low standing heart beat. i tell her she's still got time to have three more husbands after me. whenever i am stubborn about something in her constant quest at my self-improvement, she refers to me as her first husband. because i told her once she was going to live to be 120 and have time for plenty more. >> critics laughed. they can laugh, but it works. not just big bill's pattern there but the whole thing. the whole clinton thing. it works. just think about it. the secretary of state also scored an endorsement of "snl"

seth meyers. he nominated her for gq's list of hundred hottest women of the semplg. quote, i think somebody who is getting sexier every year is hillary clinton. every year she seems better at whatever she's doing. she'll have it locked down. from the national endowment from the humanities that will provide new books for a community college library in his own district. well, hint. the title of the grant program is bridging cultures books help muslim journeys. and the congressman walter jones of north carolina asked a christian group to offset that donation with its own set of books. >> i respect all religions and all faiths, but i want them treated fairly. i think too many times the christian faith is not treated fairly. if they want to have books about the muslim faith, let's have equal books about the christian. i'd rather see the $150 million

spent to remodel schools in craven county or build schools at craven community. >> well, there's been no outcry at that school over a lack of christian reading material at the school. on top of that he says he wants the $150 million to go to other projects. here's the thing. that $150 million is the entire budget, not just this project. he's got that all wrong. and if helping communities in need why did he vote against the sandy relief aid? . finally now matter how rational president obama is, the extreme end of the pro gun side will always hear something like this courtesy of jimmy kimmel this time. >> why does president obama want to take everybody's guns away? >> everybody's guns are going to be taken away. >> that's right. the federal government is about to take your guns away.

>> the federal government's about to take all your guns away. >> whose guns? >> everybody's guns. >> how many guns? >> all your guns. >> call the white house right now because if you don't -- >> here it comes. >> -- here it comes. paid for by americans against context. >> people are going to believe in that. i was just kidding. up next, among the challenges facing president obama in his second term, criticism by some on the makeup of his cabinet. not enough women. and that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. what are you doing? nothing. are you stealing our daughter's school supplies and taking them to work? no, i was just looking for my stapler and my... this thing. i save money by using fedex ground and buy my own supplies. that's a great idea. i'm going to go... we got clients in today.

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i'm sue herrera with your cnbc market wrap. the dow fell 24 points today.

the nasdaq glue seven points. revenue came in ahead of what the street was looking for earnings at goldman sachs nearly tripled in the fourth quarter. and consumer prices were unchanged in december thanks to falling gasoline prices. and the federal reserve says expanded just lightly. that's it from cnbc. we are first in business worldwide. now back to chris and "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." the white house has come under a lot of criticism over the gender makeup of its political appointments. white men occupy many of the senior positions in the white house right now. so far the president has announced he'd filled three major vacancies in his cabinet with white men. today politico and others are

reporting the next is dennis mcdonough. another white male. here's one what official told the hill today. obviously this person spoke on background not to be named. quote, i work in this administration and i have to admit i'm slightly annoyed by lack of women around him. i mean, come on. out of all those people there's one woman in the room? you mean to tell me there's not one woman to be secretary of staff? earlier this week, let's watch the president at the press conference. >> if you think about my first four years, the person who probably had the most influence on my foreign policy was woman. the people who were in charge of moving forward my most important domestic initiative, health care, were women. the person in charge of our homeland security was woman.

my two appointments to the supreme court were women. and 50% of my white house staff were women. so i think people should expect that that record will be built upon during the next four years. >> well, is the criticism fair against the president that's been thrown at him? falling short of his problem of being a champion for women. howard fineman is an msnbc political analyst. and "huffington post" has been facing obama. the road forward. and dee dee meyers. you were kind of a pioneeress in all this. i watch this. and maybe there's tokenism. which is maybe better than nothing. you wonder about the decision how they made it to make it look good. what's better to make it look bad by not doing it or to look

good when you don't intend to have that person in there? >> the best is to put people in with the best authority and do it right. i think the president's -- >> why is it happening? >> i think the president makes a good case. that he has appointed a lot of women to senior positions and to unprecedented positions. 43% to the bench were women. >> the numbers are right. but what about paramount -- the prominence of the positions that they're in in the executive branch. >> i think in the cabinet in the first term. so i think the president sends mixed signals. on the one hand he has done, i think, a really good job from a distance of putting together a really diverse team. but when you get closer and see who's around him every day it gets complicated. his body language doesn't always sync up. and when he's in his spare time

you get the sense he's more comfortable with men. he's played 132 rounds of golf in four years. two of them have been women. i don't want to begrudge the guy if you want to go off with the guys. >> it's an interesting crossover. howard, you on this. i don't know the president personally. i've met him four or five times but i don't know him personally. but i read his friends or old friends which is a safe way to be, keep the old friends who keep your confidence you can have fun times with but you can talk to old buddies that way. he hasn't brought those old buddies into the administration except for valerie. most friends in chicago are not who he works with. he's not using friendship to pick people from? >> now that you mention it, the irony is the one chicago friend that he brought into the inner circle of his white house staff was a woman, valerie jarrett. the others are men,

african-american men. >> is he picking from his buddies? >> that's the way he is. >> does he do it? >> yes. dee dee mentions the golf games. that doesn't count all the hours watching espn and playing basketball. now, susan rice could probably clean all their clocks. >> she could? >> yeah. she was the captain of her high school basketball team. >> she played in college. >> i like womens basketball. i can follow it. i can identify with it. >> here's something. the president can't complain about this, the white house can't complain about people carping because the president was re-elected as the symbol and leader of this new diverse america. that's who he is. that's what he got congratulated for. that's what "time" magazine named him person of the year for. if there's a picture of him with his inner circle and they're nine white guys and one women, that's bad. >> okay. >> they can't complain. they have to be sensitive of that and all the statistics that

dee dee cites don't go to the question of sensitivity about this. the questions might not always be fair in the new america he helped create. >> african-american, minority whatever, i say the same thing. you got to spread your name around aggressively. when a job empties, you got two weeks. you better have your face in their face or you're not getting the job. a lot is not being there. if you're not in the room when they're looking, if you're not in the line of sight. the question is for affirmative action purposes shouldn't he be lining up his deputies and make sure there's diversity? maybe not control who works the top jobs. but doesn't he have to fill the magazine of people around him? and he's not done that. >> he has done it in some cases and hasn't in others. for example, there was -- you know, they appointed a new cia

director, another white male. highly qualified but nonetheless. there are a number of women running defense agencies in this town that he could have chosen. the second was a woman michelle flournoy that he could have chosen. i believe we got to keep pressure on him. because i think this is really important. >> anybody you know that's equally qualified. name some people you know who are equally qualified to the people he named to the top jobs who are women? >> susan rice was. >> equally qualified as john kerry? >> i think so. >> fair enough. >> she was just one. michelle flournoy would have been. >> i think they were just pushing against kerry. against hagel. >> against hagel and be a con tra train to the president. >> one of the most important people in the president's inner circle in the first term was nancy ann deparle.

had it not been for her they wouldn't have passed the health care bill. she was absolutely independenceable l. she's leaving, however. >> the great irony is nobody's more powerful in the inner circle than a woman. valerie jarrett. he's known her a long time. she was an executive in chicago. he knows her well. this is an argument we'll have in america and we should always. >> and we'll judge him by the final results. i'll put that out there. >> thank you. up next, press secretary -- let's take a look at the guy who's a far out guy. steve stockman who was an ally when he was first elected and now is in the mainstream of the republican party. the republican party has moved from mainstream conservative to radical that even the radicals now fit right in. it's the moderates that don't fit in. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ford c-max hybrid.

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we want all tools available to use including the impeachment. using children, >> it reminds me when he used kids. sdwr that was texas congressman not only threatening to impeach president obama and likening the president to hussein. this is the second go around in congress. he was first selected as part of the newt gingrich's republican revolution. back then, however, he was too extreme for both his colleagues in the congress and his constituents back home and was not reelected. an article in the "dallas daily news." he defended the myly sha in the wake of the oklahoma city bombing. he suggested that president bill clinton to build support for gun control. clinton organized that. and he proposed a measurement colleagues viewed as bizarre on sexual behavior 48 years after

its publication. as dana millbank writes, "all of these years later, stockman can still bring the crazy." the problem is he's now just one of many purveyors. joining me now, dana millbank an his senior partner. you -- eugene robinson. there is an animal husbandry aspect. the people vote -- is it just we've got to the situation in this country where primary is all you've got? that there's a wide field in the primary and a nutty guy wins it, he or she is in for life? so if he wins primary for a wide field, crazy after all of these years, he can't be beaten in the general. >> he was this guy, at a past, he was homeless, eating out of trash cans, had a drug arest, long rap sheet. they didn't really pay attention. he just got elected in the republican revolution. they got rid of him.

you know what? they can't do that anymore. this guy has a safe seat for life. the only way he doesn't get reelected is if he gets bumped out in the primary. >> did somebody get this guy's right? >> you can't. he's now a member in good standing of the republican caucus. he's not some nut out there. he's in the mainstream. >> i have some sense of taste. some. and when i hear these guys talking about the obama girls being somehow food for discussion here, let's talk about their safety as some joke line. but then, talking about this guy saying the president reminds him of sadhamhusein. and we were oh, my god, that kid is skacared to death of this gu. he's comparing what obama did today to that. that takes a sick kind of connection to do that. >> he basically accused janet reno and bill clinton of

murdering people merely to further his assault gun ban. >> explain how that would work? here's the question. wait a minute. how do you organize -- >> you don't want to follow. >> how do you organize branch davidion? to come up with the idea he justified the raids because he wanted to come out against gun control. >> he said the president wanted them dead because they liked their guns. you can't go down that path. >> the people who believe that you lost them. you lost them there. >> what about militia members after those two guys were executed? one of them was. the other in jail for life. but the bureaucrats are dead because the people, just workers for the united states government, are dead. and then he celebrates the fact that we've got militias. >> yeah, yeah. >> and your point is? i mean, that's who he is. this is -- this guy is -- >> what does he say at town meetings? anyway, as opposed to 1994,

stockman has followers. >> let's listen. >> wow, well, my old buddy, i mean that term sarcastically, echoed stockman's position in this statement. president obama's series of gun control measures amount to an executive power grab. he paid lib service to our fundamental constitutional rights, but took actions to disregard the second amendment and the legislative process. he's pretty darn close to them. >> he is the potential leader of the republican party right now. >> but, also, the crazy win. >> this is the whole point. i said he brought the crazy in 1994, this guy. but the crazy has just caught up with him. steve stockman hasn't changed at all. >> and frankly, not doing a

service for the republican party. a service to the party would be for the head of the party to draw some lines. to bring -- >> he's too busy organizing. >> gene, as you know, we've talked about this. he's too busy kor you graphing voter suppression. >> it didn't work very well. >> people noticed. thank you, gene robinson. when we return, the wild bunch or the posse? they may have already made that choice, unchor fu gnatly. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. about incorporating a business you'd like to start. or questions about protecting your family with a will or living trust. and you'd like to find the right attorney to help guide you along, answer any questions and offer advice. with an "a" rating from the better business bureau legalzoom helps you get personalized and affordable legal protection. in most states, a legal plan attorney is available with every personalized document to answer any questions. get started at legalzoom.com today. and now you're protected.

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